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God vs Gays: Gay Conversion Therapy (Part 2/3)

God vs Gays: Gay Conversion Therapy (Part 2/3)


Do you think that you can live as a devout Christian/Catholic and be gay? No. You can’t be, it’s incompatible. You cannot be Christian and gay You can’t You can be a homosexual and Christian but you can’t be gay and Christian. There is no question anymore, of course you can be gay and you can be a Christian. Of course and if anybody really thinks through what their theology is about their faith. That answer is easy to come to I’m John Smid, and I worked for 22 years on staff at Love In Action International I was the executive director from 1990 through 2008 Love In Action was a ministry that was motivated to help people leave behind their homosexual behavior. We attempted all through the years to help people find that freedom in their life. Today, I am very offended at the concept of “change therapies” for homosexuality because the message that someone who is gay has something intrinsically wrong with them is a shame-producing negative message that hits at the core of a human life And I’m offended that that message is still in any way communicated. I don’t feel guilt for having been a part of reparative therapy and the reason for that is not because I don’t feel bad about the message that we put out, but we were on a journey and you have to put it in the cultural context at the time. There was a huge cultural war between the church and the LGBT community and we were caught in that just like everybody else, so being involved in the church community the way that is was we thought that this was the right thing to do. We were wrong. I am a religious man. I’m a Christian man and so that’ll certainly inform some of my lifestyle choices. and values. I don’t knwo if all of the men who come to us are religious. Then at the sound of the drum beat take one step to your left Look at the outside of this man. Look at his physical appearance. Look into this man’s heart. Look into his soul. Now look more deeply. -I know that I didn’t choose to have the feelings that I had but i think that how I react to that or how I respond to that is still… you know, that’s where I can make a choice about that and so, sexual acting out and things like that wasn’t really compatible with my values. It kind of came to the point where I just wanted to see what other alternatives there were. I started to come back into my Catholic faith as well, about that time. After coming into this and finding a lot of healing and I think this weekend even though it’s not a religious weekend. There’s a real emphasis on surrendering to a higher power, that starting leading me, in my life, back to to the church, back to what I found, where I found the most peace. So groups like Journey Into Manhood or Love in Action or any kind of group that tries to change the sexual orientation or gender identity of people from what’s natural for them. I find to be very damaging. Do you now believe that it’s possible to change your sexual orientation? No, I don’t There’s a lot of history of people coming out after they’ve, you know created these organizations these ex-gay organizations or reparative therapy movements, to say that, in fact, it wasn’t helpful. Exodus International was the largest ex-gay organization for over 30 years and their leader of over 10 years finally at the end of it came out to say that 99 plus percent of people that he knew, including himself never actually changed their internal-felt sense of their attractions towards other people. I know that there are people who have taken their life because they felt so ashamed of who they are felt like God couldn’t love them as they are and that’s something that will haunt me until the day I die. It wasn’t until I left the ex-gay movement that I actually heard the damage and I am grieved that I didn’t hear it before. The collateral damage I think is something we’ve not been willing to listen to We’re here today to talk about conversion therapy. There’s a lot of different names for this topic There’s a lot of different perspectives on this topic. -It is really hard for me to be in the same room sometimes with people who led the programs currently or in the past because i know that my friends lost their lives because of the the pain that they endured at the hands of these men. I am a recent graduate of MIT Just did two graduate degrees in nuclear engineering and technology policy. I now work a few different think-tanks there in Washington, DC Third Way and the Bipartisan Policy Center, working on educating Congress on advanced nuclear reactor physics which is pretty much awesome. It’s a great job. I also serve as the co-chair for the Born Perfect campaign to end conversion therapy so this is my, this is my outlet to make the world a little bit better place in the non-nuclear realm, I guess is the best way of putting it. -I’m gonna give you some facts, that’s what I do. I’m a lawyer, I work in facts. -What we are doing is we are going around the country trying to pass laws that protect kids under 18 from having conversion therapy practiced on them by licensed mental health professionals. -Good afternoon I’m here to request your help in ending conversion therapy. -So we recently went to Geneva, Switzerland to talk to the United Nations Committee Against Torture about the practice of conversion therapy in the United States and Sam Brinton one of our incredible survivors we work with a lot, testified before that committee. Now these are folks who have spent their lives talking about torture and by the end of his testimony there were very few dry eyes in that house. -Then the physical abuse began he tied down my hands and placed ice on them while showing me erotic pictures of men. He wrapped my hands in hot coils stuck needles in my fingers and shocked me with electricity. Through all of this I remained gay but became suicidal. I found that forgiveness for me is something really really important it’s a way for me to get past all that pain. I shed that love back toward those Nick Calosi’s and Allen Chamber’s, hoping that they were doing it out of love. And I just need to make my message and my voice loud enough to help them understand that it is not helping. -I learned to lie and through that survived but many aren’t so lucky.

100 thoughts on “God vs Gays: Gay Conversion Therapy (Part 2/3)

  1. If you want to be Christian and gay start your own church but I don’t think you should push it on the other big religions that they have to except you.

  2. “You can’t be gay and Christian, BUT you can be homosexual and Christian.” Uh oh mr. psychology hasn’t heard of synonyms.

  3. Joel Super British Warrior Cong######## Plymouth Joel Super British Warrior Cong######## Plymouth If your God doesn’t make mistakes, then why does he make people gay? If your God loves everyone, then why does he want people to live their lives full of self hatered, to force themself to be with someone that they do not love, to fall into pits of mental illness and self harm that often lead to suicide, to be disowned by their families and left homeless, to fear for their lives, to be hurt and killed by others, and to be truly hated. This God you speak of makes mistakes, and commands his people to truly hate and psychologically abuse others. He commands people to despise themselves, and to not allow themselves to LOVE. If your God loves everyone, then why would he want gays to spend their life in misery, alienated by their families.

    I don’t know what church you go to, but let me tell you about my God. He loves everyone— and because he loves everyone, He wants everyone to be happy and love themselves. He wants everyone to treat those around them with respect and kindness. He wants us to spread love, not hatered. He commands us not to judge others— for he is the only true judge. He tells us that we are not better than anyone else, and should not act as if we are gods— for He is the only true lord. He does not command us to psychologically and physically abuse people, especially not children. He tells us that we are made in His image— and if we have been made in His image, how could we be sinners merely because of something that we have no control over.

    I’ve been to a church like the one you speak of— indeed, the church I grew up in sounds very much like it. That church took people I grew up with. It took happy and innocent children who were faithful to the lord, and it taught them that being gay was a sin. As those children grew up, they hated them self’s. They fell into depression and self harm. They isolated themselves. Many lost their families. Some committed suicide. They tried everything— but in the end, you can’t pray the gay away.

    Being gay is not all lust. Perhaps that’s what your church has taught you. Perhaps that’s what you’ve seen on TV. Perhaps those are the only gay people you have met— because, just like straight people, gay people can be focused only on lust.

    Let me tell you about some gay couples I know.

    One girl met another girl who was very very sick— her kidneys were failing. This girl was far too sick to have sex, and —if we’re being honest— looked quite poorly. However, the other girl fell in love with her. Not because of how she looked or how she performed sexually, but because of her mind and all the sweet things she would do. The girl got sicker and sicker, and eventually was put on the transplant list. Months past, and there was no organ for her. The other girl —mind you they still hadn’t had sex— got tested. Once she realized that they were a match, she donated a kidney to her girlfriend. She risked her life and signed up for life long consequences and limits, to save the girl she loved. The girl she had never had sex with. Does this sound like just lust to you?

    Another lesbian couple I know adopted three very poorly children from Africa. Some of them have severe learning disabilities. They have raised a family together. One of the works three jobs so she can pay for the children to go to an expensive private school that can give specialized help in terms of their learning disabilities. They are one of the kindest couples I’ve ever met. They are constantly bringing home made snacks to events, and they go to every single one of their kids events. They don’t do anything lustful in public— they don’t even kiss, meanwhile, there are tons of parents engaging in PDA. They never fight, and you can just see how in love they are. From surprising eachother with gifts, to helping carry each others bags. I’ve honest to god never seen a couple so in love after 20 years together.

    The truth is that, today, most Christians don’t follow every rule in the Bible— I’m sure you don’t.

    If you have clothing made of two materials, have eaten shellfish/rabbit/pork/etc, make jokes, or haven’t given away all but one of your shirts— then, technically, you’re disobeying the Bible.

    Indeed, the Bible says that it is okay to enslave CHILDREN. However, we as a society, have evolved to know that it’s clearly wrong to treat people —especially children— as objects.

    If you can strike two rules because you want shirts with multiple materials and you want more than one shirt, surely you can strike a rule that outlaws love. If you can strike a rule because you selfishly want certain things, then surely you can strike a rule that spreads hatred and leads thousands to commit suicide.

    Indeed, the passage that refers to gay sex has been translated by MANY phds in the field to actually mean man shall not lay with boy; man shall not lay with man is widely regarded by many to be a mistranslation, and that the true meaning is that pedophilia is a sin (which, of course, it is).

    Another common thought is that that passage was necessary for the time. Of course, if you’re trying to build up your civilization or you’ve had many men die off in war, it would be important for men and women to have sex as more children were needed to continue the society. It’s similar to passages about things like shellfish— there was probably someone in them that was making people ill. However, today shellfish are safe to consume— and the world is overflowing with far too many people, we no longer need to focus on reproducing… so, man shall not lay with man, no longer serves a purpose.

    Here’s some dumb stuff the Bible says:

    * Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19
    * Ye shall not round the corners of your heads. Leviticus 19:27
    * The Bible strictly forbids eating rabbit, shellfish, pork, weasels, scavengers, reptiles, and owls.
    *You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT
    * Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same. Luke 3:11 NIV
    *Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place. Ephesians 5:4 NIV

  4. Literally all of these people that are anti-homosexual and act homophobic or "were once gay" all have a sort of eating disorder. You can tell just by looking at them that they have a mental health issue and it's called anxiety through repression. This is fucked up.

  5. These programs are not going to make gay people straight. You cannot in any way, change who people are. These practices, no matter how innocent they seem on the surface, are incredibly wrong, and these people i.e the participants of this program, should just be left alone. Period.

  6. Doubt anybody will see this but does anyone know if there are more documentaries are these “anti-gay camps” or even novels about them?

  7. I know a lot of straight men who are good people and not homophobic and yet they don't like the idea of gay men around them. I think, this has just got to do a lot with the ideas of masculinity and femininity that we as a society are so conditioned to. It's really sad. We are all suffering, the victims, the bullies everyone. Just that some are starting to show the signs and some are calling themselves "normal".

  8. So you can’t be gay and christian but you can be homosexual and Christian? I’ve already lost half of my brain cells and it’s only 26 seconds in to the video😂

  9. I think it's great if an adult wants to go to a program for healing if they've suffered sexual abuse or neglect as a child I know a few people who feel they only started having homosexual feelings because of those experiences. I dont think children should be subjected to any conversion therapy…especially that to the extent the physicist experienced. That breaks my heart. I am a Christian and i dont feel it my place to judge. That is Gods place and it is considered a sin but Jesus also said "he who is without sin cast the first stone" no one is without sin and none of us have the right to judge. It is up to us to give love no matter our opinions because in the grand scheme of things our opinion is irrelevant. I pray for all of us sinners no matter the sin.

  10. Ok but which part of the Bible say that homosexuality is bad ? I would like to know since I never saw it…

  11. So you cant be gay and christian… what about the priests, cardinals, and bishops who have sexually abused little boys? And if they abuse little girls is that better in their eyes? So messed up…

  12. This is literally the gayest shit I’ve ever seen in my life. And I don’t mean that with negative connotations. I mean this is got to be the most homosexual thing I’ve ever seen. Like even gay porn is not as gay. Like wtf??? Just be gay men and live your lives. Fucking hell

  13. it's just amazing how everyone is so self righteous about their opinions on the complex issues of humanity…could it be that since you didn't create sexuality it's not of you to say what's right or wrong? That that is between you & your maker??

  14. Deluding yourself is extremely powerful people. I mean…shit, the majority of the human population deludes itself with bullshit religious nonsense.

  15. While doing theater routines at overnight camp, men are lined up facing each other and told to look at each other's "shape" and "into their hearts." I'm sorry, but are they fucking with us? Like is this a comedy of absurdities?

  16. Think about all the crazy sex that happens at night in these camps! 😂 Maby thats my sterotype hetro man belivs on gay men. But damn! What an opportunity to just fuck around with a bunch of gay guys in the woods! I belive thats what happens on these camps! 😂

  17. How exactly are you defining being "gay" any differently from being a "homosexual"? What is your definition of "gay", exactly?

  18. He said you can be homosexual and Christian bit not gay and Christian I just stood up and spent an hour thinking about it

  19. OK Smid, it's "a shame-producing, negative message that strikes at the core of a human life". You're getting there, now all you gotta do is sloowwwly back away from the whole "Jesus died for your sins and non-believers burn in hell" setup. Give it another 20 years?

  20. I actually attended this “Journey Into Manhood” weekend years ago. These videos portray it accurately, but omit many of the more disturbing practices led by unskilled, unlicensed, non-professionals. One of the men I attended with ended up committing suicide. One of the founders – Dave Matheson – has now come out as gay and disavowed his harmful practices. Thankfully, I survived and – shocker – I’m still gay and have happily been with my partner for 5 years now. If you are reading this and considering conversion therapy, please know the people running these camps are deeply misguided and ashamed of who they are. You are beautiful just as you are, and your sexuality does NOT need any repairing!

  21. You cannot be Christian and have an ex wife. You can be a Christian and be divorced but you cannot be Christian with an ex wife.

  22. Well doing that isn't right to torture people into not being gay that's not cool at all. If people chose to try the other way like the therapeutic way like in the first part in this 3 part video and still can't help but be gay then be gay and go to a real therapist and work thru those thoughts and feelings to make it where u feel good about who u are and feel good about being gay. If one or both of my girls turn out to be gay I'm still going to love them for who they are not who they are attracted to cuz in the end they are still our children and are still the same person that they have been since they were born. #gayloveisthesamelove 😎

  23. i am MORMON, one of the STRICTEST christian religions and im a LESBIAN. it’s not that hard, i just love jesus and help other latter day saints help understand me!

  24. I lost all of my brain cells that was left from the first part, thanks alot smh. Now im gonna fail my test cause of how dumb u made me ;-;

  25. I'm gay, have only had sex with 2 people… And my fiancé has only had sex with 1 person… Me… And we've been together for 3-1/2 years and have never had a true fight and love each other very much.

    Yes we both have anxiety and depression, but it's not because we're gay .. it's because people have been abusive towards us throughout our lives for being gay. Being gay doesn't cause mental health problems, being treated like shit by other people for being gay is what causes mental health issues. That should be obvious.

  26. MY ANSWERS:

    2:34 – answer: delicious
    2:37 – answer: like warm apple pie
    2:42 – answer: PASS
    2:45 – answer: I said PASS… Next please
    2:50 – answer: how deep can I go????

    ROFL =D

  27. The error at 1:25 is that we all don't have a brokenness of some sort. All Christians have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. The Christian answer is chastity, and heterosexual relations with ones spouse, an admittedly difficult task for many straight people. What is wrong however, is the torture described in the end. That would violate the Law of Land Warfare, absent some personal consent.

  28. What is lacking in these camps are the Holy Spirit, and deliverance, these people are battling with Spiritual forces, they can be possessed by Jezebel,

    How i know this is I went thru a program that worked,
    Bob Larson ministries, all glory be to Jesus Christ.

  29. this is a well made documentary. interviews, data and most important, no opinion was given from the producers. it's strange to see how people all hate on this practice even if they are not influenced into it. or were they?

    just a clarification, i'm not trying to say this practice is good at all and even though someone would choose to be gay, there is no logical reason to hate them!!! i was just surprised at how well this is made and the public's response

  30. For all this dudes on this documentary who says they are helping gay men… be happy married men like them… camera zooms in on wedding ring… SHOW ME THEIR WIVES…. LOL

  31. Right fore warning I just smoked a fat blunt so don't @ me but what if we get to heaven and god says we were wrong the whole time and these guys are right 🤣🤣

  32. Sam was clearly abused by the therapy and the therapist he went to, but I don't think the weekend theater group was abusive, although I do think it is pretty gay to have a weekend of community theater to cure homosexuality.

  33. There’s no empirical evidence that you can “change” homosexuality. And manhood doesn’t necessary mean straight. If god is great, then he will love you for who you are.

  34. Him: you can not be gay but you can be a Christian

    Me: and you can be an asshole and still be a Christian a bad Christian.

    Funny how we can learn to accept each other

  35. 3:35 "ooo.. A Beee" lmao these councilors are soooo gay they invented a "get straight camp" to lure "Curious" or "Confused" young men to the camp to secretly convert them into Lifetime Closet Homosexuals…

  36. I find things that are not normal to be very damaging for tradition and health. Where do we put a cap on it? Being gay may not mean there is something wrong with being born, HOWEVER there is nothing wrong with admitting losing control somewhere and finding where things took a wrong turn in their life abnormally and repair it. I STILL LOVE THEM FOR BEING ABNORMAL AND TRYING TO REPAIR ON THIS PLATFORM….

  37. The things that Journey into manhood do and say are not what real men would say and do. I would have to say GAAAAAAAAY

  38. i want to punt this man into the ground. the fact that homosexual relationships tend to last less and homosexuals are mentally in a worse place is litERALLY YOUR FAULT

  39. I think many of you are missing the point of the retreat. The few men who participate in it don't want to live with men and do not want to have sex with men, even if that is their sexual desire. They are socialized to think a man and woman relationship is comfortable. That raising a child with the opposite sex, a child with a mother is a precious thing. This is very complicated because they were raised by woman, were taught that men work with woman at raising children, yet their nature and society demands that they must have sex , live with, and raise a child with a man. It is possible to want to have sex with men but not raise a child with one, especially if faith is important to you. I honestly don't see why they couldn't have a child with a woman, the right woman, but also have relationships with men, if that was allowed by the wife. I am surprised that a community that is so diverse doesn't understand that this is itself diversity. A gay man who wants to be married to woman.

  40. GAY IS NOW A CATEGORY IN PEOPLE IF U DIDNT KNOW, I DIDNT KNOW BUT NOW I DO BECAUSE OF THEIR GOD DAMN TITLE "God vs gays" I WANT EVERYONE READING THIS TOO REALIZE HOW OFFENSIVE THAT IS

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